User talk:Killeropus
Welcome Hi, welcome to Champions Online Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Ripper page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Heaven's Agent (Talk) 02:20, December 31, 2009 RPG Images I am so happy you've joined the project. I've envisioned this as a repository of both CO and Champions RPG lore, similar in design and function to WoWWiki, but thus far it had seemed I was the only one with the RPG material. I'm excited to see your recent image additions, and look forward to seeing more. I'll be creating a template for the licensing of such images, but to do so I do need to know the source they were obtained from, the website you found them on. That way we can give proper credit for the work, as well as draw on the site for further images; I intend to seek permission to pull art directly from the books themselves, as well as seek new art pieces specifically for the wiki, but until then what's publicly available will have to do. Once again, thank you so much for what you've added thus far, and I look forward to your contributions in the future. -- Heaven's Agent 23:02, January 1, 2010 (UTC) Old time Champions Fan Each image is a scan directly from the original books themselves. I was a player of the RPG game a long time ago so I still have most of the orginal books released back in 1981 ...but only the 1st edition Champions (Champions, Champions II and Champions III) books. I have none of the newer editions. I plan to show the look of villains and possibly heroes as they were drawn back in the games birth. If that is a problem please let me know. I also enjoy the new MMORPG. :It is a bit of a problem at the moment. Without permission to use such images, it's technically illegal to do so. That said, I did send off an email to Cryptic asking for permission to use scans and, if they are unable to provide such permissions, who I should contact to obtain them. I would love to be able to show how the characters changed as the game evolved, and using scans would save a lot of work that would otherwise be taken up by creating and commissioning original works. Go ahead and keep using them for now, but also keep in mind that if we're denied their use I'll have to delete them from the project. In the mean time I'll get a citation template developed for them; I'll let you know when I have it complete. -- Heaven's Agent 17:33, January 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Thanks! ::Personally I don't see the problem as it may generate interest unless there is a conspiracy to cover up the changes they made for the purposes of the game. :) ::Also I would think the ultimate permission would come from Hero Games. :::When they began work on Champions Online, Cryptic Studios purchased the Champions and Dark Champions IPs from Hero Games. Cryptic now owns all the characters, places, events, etc., that populate the Champions Universe. They should be able to grant permission to use original images of such at the very least. :::It's possible, even likely, that Hero Games retains ownership of the images from their books, but I hope the folks at Cryptic will put me in touch with the right people to get their usage approved as well. Because we're not setting out to document the rules of the HERO system, usage of such images should fall under Fair Use; this is an educational project, and in essence it's a giant advertisement for both the tabletop and online games. On that front I don't think we'd need to obtain permission at all, though that aspect of copyright law can be fuzzy at times. In any case, it's still best to work with the owners and creators to get their permission whenever possible, especially if we want to show proper respect to the system and setting itself. -- Heaven's Agent 18:03, January 2, 2010 (UTC) Image Permissions and Templates I was successful in getting permission to utilize scans and other images from printed source within this project, and apparently Steven Long has expressed a willingness to work with us in the future, should we need his help; I'll be contacting him soon as a courtesy and with a thank you. With that in mind, I brought over a new template for use when such images are uploaded. Template:ImageInfo should be included as part of any image that's not a direct screen shot taken from the game. For the purposes of image scans, Template:Fairuse should also be included with the image. You can find an example of this here. If you would like, I can make a citation template for the sources you're drawing images from, in order to make uploading them a bit faster. -- Heaven's Agent 03:57, January 6, 2010 (UTC) That sounds great! I haven't paid too much attention to a lot of the villains my hero has faced throughout the game so I haven't noticed too many matches from the old books. I may invest in more of the old adventure books that I don't have (which isn't very many) to see if there is more lore to be had. I must tell you though, and I'm sure you know they exist. But the "other" CO Wiki contacted me in game via email saying; ---- "So, I assume you're the Killeropus who's been working on the Wikia the last few days, if not, disregard this message ;) Anyway, I'm not sure if you're aware, but the wikia is basically an incomplete, dead project, with only 1 regular contributor. If you want to work on a wiki, I encourage you to come check out the CO Wiki (where we actually have 99% of the missions and all of the powers up, rather than >10% of each ;) ), and help us out there, rather than duplicating work that's already been done. We still need lots of help, especially with some of the PnP lore stuff you've been doing on the wikia (most of us have been working exclusively on the in-game content). Anyway, come check us out: http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Main_Page -MFS (Mr Fun Socks)" ---- I'm not sure why there is a Wikia and a Wiki. Perhaps you and MFS should collaborate or one great web page dedicated to Champions? I will still upload my lore (like Grond and Mechanon) onto your Wikia though as I find more similarities from CO to Champions PnP. --Killeropus 19:19, January 6, 2010 (UTC) :I'm very aware of them, though I wasn't aware they were actively contacting this project's contributors in an effort to pull them away. It's a little low, but it explains a lot. It actually makes me feel somewhat validated as well, though; they at least seem to see this project as worthwhile enough to the point that they're keeping tabs on it. :Unfortunately, they've made it clear they want nothing to do with this project. In fact, I'm here because they didn't want me helping with their project in the first place. When I attempted to join them I didn't have access to the game, but was willing to help with lore and structure. They told me to "just leave", and their project's Admin went so far as to specifically tell me I should come to the Wikia project as they didn't want lore information on the CO-Wiki at all. I don't think she imagined that I would do just that, but I love wiki work, so here I am. :I find it odd that Funsocks mentioned lore articles specifically, since as I mentioned the CO-Wiki Admin made it very clear to me she didn't want such content on her project, but he is correct about one thing; The CO-Wiki does contain more information pertaining specifically to Champions Online at the moment. They have more contributors and as such can get information up with more speed. I'm not going to deny that, but I also made it clear to them that I wasn't going to waste my time attempting to compete with them. And we'll get there eventually. :My personal goal is to see this project become an all-encompassing resource covering both Champions Online and the lore of the Champions Universe, similar to the focus of WoWWiki. That does mean we're going to replicate a lot of information already hosted at CO-Wiki, but we're also going to offer the lore information which they want nothing to do with. You've expressed an interest in adding lore articles; I welcome and look forward to any contributions you may have in that field. I'm a rather open individual, so if you have any other thoughts, concerns, questions, or comments, feel free to let me know. -- Heaven's Agent 20:31, January 6, 2010 (UTC) :: I had not mentioned anything since I was trying to open some lines of communication between the two projects, but I was also emailed ingame with offers to work on the other wiki. Mr. Fun Socks seems quite intent on projecting the idea that this project is dead. I told him that this project was working on more than just ingame info, and he assured me that they too would be adding such information once they got the majority of the ingame info added. Seems like they'll say anything to stop people from working on this project. It's just sad really. As I told him, I have played Guild Wars for the last 4 years and there are 2 wiki projects for it. They both seem to work together and are both very useful. I'd like to think the same could happen here. Regardless, this just further impresses on me the fact that I will either work on this project or no project, but not their project. -- Piratemike 03:01, January 15, 2010 (UTC) I Can No Longer See My Pictures My contributions seem to be no longer valid. Is there a problem?--Killeropus 02:50, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :I'm not sure what happened. I know Wikia did some database maintenance earlier in the day; I'll do some digging, see if there's any sort of link between that and the missing images. -- Heaven's Agent 04:39, January 13, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, I'm having another problem too right now. With a lot of the pages, such as the Rogues Gallery one, it doesn't load the editor. Yet this obviously isn't the case for all pages, since I can edit this. --Trevormark 04:53, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :::I think I may have identified why your image uploads where temporarily disabled. It would appear that the reason was because they lack licensing and/or source information. Licensing is a must for all media uploads to Wikia due to the fact that it operates under the CC-BY-SA license; without a valid usage license, such as Fairuse, media uploads are identified as public domain, something we aren't authorized to do. Source citation is also highly recommended by Wikia for non-public domain media. :::Neither of these are necessarily required to be present on Wikia; they serve to cover the company's legal bases in the event of dispute, and otherwise rarely become a factor. But I am considering making them part of a general image/media upload policy for this project. All media should be licensed properly anyway, and source information helps us to show proper respect to the creators of the Champions line as well as showing visitors to the project where they can find the images in the source material. Do you have any thoughts on the matter? -- Heaven's Agent 04:30, January 15, 2010 (UTC) Text from Source Material Going over the article you wrote today, Supreme Serpent, I noticed you took the majority of the text directly from the source itself. We can't do that. We can summarize what's in the source books, but we need to do so by condensing the text into its basic ideas and without replicating the text itself; fairuse allows one or two lines every once and a while to be taken from a source, but more than that and it becomes a violation of copyright law. Even then, the source needs to be properly documented: title, author, page number, etc. -- Heaven's Agent 04:44, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :Awww ...too bad. Kind of hard to summarize such a deep background history. I'll give it a shot though. Killeropus 14:02, January 15, 2010 (UTC) ::You're telling me. It's only tougher when one realizes most of the descriptions in the source books are summaries themselves. Still we've got to give it our best shot; cover the key points, and document the source so that someone wanting the in-depth info knows where to look. -- Heaven's Agent 17:43, January 15, 2010 (UTC) Creative Commons and Images We absolutely cannot list Creative Commons as the license of images we upload to this project; use fairuse instead. Material licensed under Creative Commons is in essence released to the public, free for use by third parties. We don't have the authorization to release these images, as they belong to another. It's also important to remember to add the source summary information, the best way of doing so being to include the ImageInfo Template when uploading such an image. -- Heaven's Agent 03:19, January 26, 2010 (UTC) : I seem to be getting worse at this as everything I add gets changed to protect the innocent. :) : I’ll do my best to not get this site in trouble. : Question about the International Standard Book Number. The links you have lead to nowhere, why? Is there something you’re planning on adding that so when they click on it it’ll search the web for matches? Killeropus 13:47, January 26, 2010 (UTC) ::The ISBN links should be leading to a Wikia search page, which in turn links to the search engines of Amazon, Barnes & Nobel, and a couple of other retailers, and will auto fill the ISBN in the search bars of those websites. ::You're not getting worse at this, its just the technical side of things can be a headache to work out. Luckily, you don't have to worry about that too much; that's why I'm here. Your contributions have been a great help thus far; I'm looking forward to combining the older information you're able to provide with the new information that I have access to, along with the information available through CO, and create single, cohesive articles that cover the entirety of the Champions Universe. -- Heaven's Agent 18:56, January 26, 2010 (UTC) "Champions RPG" Sections and Integration of Articles Before I say anything I want to say thank you for the work you continue to contribute to the project. You add a lot of information I don't believe any of our other current contributors have ready access to, and in general your "Champions RPG" sections are a big help. However, they are not always needed. A goal of this project is to streamline the presentation of all information pertaining to the Champions Universe, each article combining information from all sources available into a single coherent whole. When an article has already been made inclusive of the information, you don't need to add a new section. For example, the article on Leech already contained all the information you added to it, in an integrated format. I hope you keep adding your updates as you have been for a long time to come; they're awesome. Just keep in mind that we want to have integrated articles when everything's said and done (a long time down the road, admittedly), and that if an article already contains the information you don't need to spend your time repeating it. -- Heaven's Agent 22:32, January 31, 2010 (UTC)